we've had 10 presidential elections with televised debates. in three of them one candidate went into the first debate leading and another candidate came out of the last debate leading much it's turnedded campaigns in 1960 and 1980 and in 2000. so it can be done but it's a high task for sure. >> remember, we've been campaigning or we haven't been campaigning but the candidates have been campaigning for six months now. >> woodruff: do you agree with susan that a debate can change the trajectory of a race? >> i do. i think it can but it doesn't... it wasn't automatically change a trajectory. something significant has to happen. one of the contestants, one of the debaters has to say something that produces a lot of controversy for two or three days or do something, whether it's a... make a face, look at his watch. something has to happen that the voters look at. it changes how they evaluate the candidate. judy, the way i would put it is everybody needs to take a collective breath after this and say, wait a minute, maybe i need to reassess the camp